Live from Music Row Thursday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed John Harris, founder of the Tennessee Firearms Association, to the newsmaker line to discuss the implications of a civilian interfering in a mass shooter situation, Metro Nashville elementary-school safety protocols, and (in the full recording, not in the transcript below) the implications of removing the Second Amendment.
Leahy: We are joined on our newsmaker line now by the President and founder of the Tennessee Farms Association, John Harris. John, thanks for joining us and helping us kind of unravel the details here.
They still seem to be … just unfathomable that the timeline here, that this killer, alleged killer Salvador Ramos, drives a pickup truck near the school, crashes it, gets out with an AR-15-style rifle, shoots at two people and doesn’t hit them at a nearby funeral home, goes to approach the school, and the school district security officer, “encounters them outside.”
They don’t have gunshots exchange, but the school district or security officer doesn’t impede them. The alleged killer goes inside the school. Two Uvalde police officers arrive at that time, nobody’s killed at this time. And they exchange gunfire.
They’re wounded. The alleged killer goes into a classroom, barricades himself, and is there for apparently 40 minutes while police officers wait outside.
The parents, one of the parents of a young girl who was killed, said this, at that time, “they’re waiting” – I don’t know how many police officers were outside – “let’s just rush in, because the cops aren’t doing anything like they’re supposed to.”
“More could have been done.” This was Javier Cazares. His fourth-grade daughter, Jacklyn, was killed in the attack. “They were unprepared,” he said of the police officers.
John, I can’t imagine that, as they’re outside, those individual citizens who, let’s say, may or may not have been armed, why were they unable to persuade the police at that time to go inside and take out this guy?
Harris: That’s a really tough question. And it goes back to what we talked about in the last segment, is that part of the training that some departments have had dating back prior to Columbine, was that the patrol officers are trained, and instructed under protocols, that they’re not to go in and engage.
That they’re to secure the area, secure the zone, make sure they don’t escape, maybe even make sure others don’t go in, and to wait for the specially trained teams or federal agents, or somebody else to come in, and do what time tells us can’t be delayed.
Leahy: What’s interesting to me about this is, I’m picturing a situation like this here in Tennessee. If such a situation were to happen, and there were police outside – I don’t know how they would respond here – but it would seem to me that a lot of Tennesseans carry firearms, and a lot of Tennesseans would have said the same thing that this father, who lost his fourth-grade daughter – that day – said: let’s rush in.
What would have happened? And again, I don’t know, we’ll find out these details. But, John, what would have happened if this was Uvalde, Texas, there must have been people, civilians with firearms there outside as the police were waiting for, I guess a tactical team to arrive. What would have happened if those individuals said, Mr. police officer, we’re going in. What would have happened?
Harris: Not knowing, because of a lack of reporting, but my expectation is that the officers would have been trained to, and would have acted on their training, to tell those citizens, don’t get involved, stay back. We’ve got it.
We’re following our procedures, and if you interfere, we may charge you with an obstruction or other intentional criminal acts. I’m thinking about this father, Javier Cazares. I don’t know if Javier Cazares possesses a gun, but if he did and he’s waiting outside the classroom, I don’t know if he knew if his daughter was in that classroom or not, and she may have been. The alleged killer was in that room alone with all these kids and with the teachers, and it looks like he just systematically executed them.
Harris: What we do know, for example, take the 9/11 plane crashes. We’ve all seen the stories, the movie, and everything about the plane where the civilians, all of who had been disarmed by our government, that were on the plane, got up out of their seats and rushed the terrorists.
I don’t doubt at all that people there in that community were frustrated if this is the timeline that existed and that they were, at least some of them, willing and able – and quite likely, given this is in Southern Texas, adequately armed – to go in and engage themselves.
Leahy: So there’s a story. So let’s take this locally. Metro Nashville schools say that they’re working with police on safety protocols. This is our lead story. They confirmed Wednesday with … the Metro Nashville Police Department confirmed that it is working with Metro Nashville public schools on safety protocols.
[LEAHY READS FROM PUBLISHED STORY]
“Primarily, precinct-based officers are visiting elementary schools today, where they are providing reassurance and discussing existing protocols.”
(LEAHY:) This is according to Metro Nashville Public School spokesperson Kristen Mumford.
“Tuesday night, Metro Nashville Director of Schools Dr. Adrienne Battle said the following: ‘We are devastated by the senseless horrific shooting At Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, that has caused the death of several teachers and students.
‘Children have the right to learn and thrive in a safe environment free from violence or tragedy. Far too often, society fails in protecting that right.’ … The statement said the school district is working with student support services who will help teachers and students, ‘process this tragedy.’
“Metro Nashville Police chief John Drake issued this statement to The Tennessee Star. ‘As a parent and grandparent to a 4-year-old, I’m heartbroken over this afternoon’s murders of elementary school children and at least one teacher in Texas.
“While I await the details of the investigation now underway, I have directed all 70 Nashville elementary schools to be visited tomorrow by a police officer to help reassure staff and discuss security protocols.
I have also directed our school resource officers and supervisors to relay the same messaging at their assigned middle and high schools.'” [END OF NEWS STORY EXCERPT]
John, are you familiar with the protocols here at Metro Nashville at the school level?
Listen to the interview:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
